Wing Chun Kung Fu

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deathcultreject
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by deathcultreject » May 27th, 2010, 7:22 pm

Tara wrote:I assume (and please forgive/correct me if I'm wrong) you wish to test whether IAAIA is a (Wing Chun) charlatan or not


Correct.

Pesonaly I decided not to concentrate on training in Wing Chun, partly because I found that the basic training involed so much conditioning repeated movement to overcome pavlovian conditioning away from pain. It seemed a bit robotic, and 'force against force'.

Interesting ethics (SMILE) thank you.



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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by I AM ALL I AM » May 27th, 2010, 7:36 pm

I LOVE YOU


G'day Tara. :wave (TH)

Thank you for posting the WIng Chun Code of Conduct. (TU)

I was taught 6 principles ...

1. Avoid Fighting force with force.
2. Operate on a centre line.
3. Tai Jung Tai Sut.
4. Chi Sao
5. Simultaneous blocking and striking.
6. Economy of movement.

Funny enough, William Cheung has something different presented on his website ...


Ten Wing Chun Kung Fu Principles

by Eric Oram (extracted from Black Belt Magazine, April 1999)


From the time I was 11 until the time I was 14, I studied karate in Las Vegas. The students at that school were supposed to commit to memory hundreds of techniques that were hypothetical responses to various self-defense situations. It was difficult to remember them all, but I strove to do my best - until I began watching the black belts spar.

What I witnessed as the advanced students fought in the ring looked like nothing I had practised in the studio. Where were all those techniques I had learned?

When all was said and done, all the black belts had used were the most basic blocks and kicks, along with an occasional punch or two. So why all the techniques, I wondered?

For three years I struggled with that question. No matter how many times I asked, I never really got an answer that made sense. In the end, I resigned myself to the idea that I was just young and inexperienced and that some day in the distant future the pearls of wisdom would unveil themselves to me. Well, they eventually did - when I began learning Wing Chun Kung Fu from the legendary William Cheung.

Under Cheung's tutelage, I learned an altogether different approach to fighting, one that is principle-oriented rather than technique-oriented. I had finally found the answer I had been searching for.

A quick analogy: While I was growing up, my parents did not imagine every single thing that could possibly happen to me over the course of my lifetime and give me a hypothetical solution to those events. Rather, they instilled in me a set of principles to live by and taught me how to look at the world from that perspective. Thus, as situations arose, I responded to each one based on those principles.

Cheung teaches Wing Chun the same way. It has a series of principles upon which all the movements are based. Each technique is a spontaneous response to a situation. We learn how to identify a situation from this perspective, then let a technique "come out" if it supports the principle that applies to that situation.

In an attempt to save readers from having to endure the frustrations I experienced early in my martial arts training, I will share some of the most important guidelines upon which the Wing Chun system is based. Although the style's principles are numerous, the 10 presented here are particularly useful because they can be applied to virtually any martial art.

Kick No Higher than the Waist Area

The primary reason for this principle is the maintenance of your balance. The shorter the time your kicking leg is in the air, the longer it can be on the ground providing you with a balanced stance.

Another reason is target vulnerability. The longer and higher your leg is off the ground, the more vulnerable your groin is. If you kick at a low target, your leg returns to the ground more quickly, where it can return to protecting your groin.

Your supporting leg is also more vulnerable to attack when you kick high.

Maintain your Balance

Balance is everything. Without it, nothing else really matters. Power in blocking, punching, striking and kicking begins with good balance. Leverage - especially in upright fighting systems - comes from balance. Without balance, energy connot be pushed up from your stance and released through a movement or technique.

An effective stance is a mobile stance. Balance should be part of that mobility. If balance is always there, you can freely interrupt your movement at any time and flow into virtually any other movement - and have constant access to the power of the first movement. This freedom is crucial to success in fighting.

Avoid any unnecessary leaning or over-extension of your stance because it will slow you down and make you vulnerable to being knocked off-balance.

Protect Your Centreline

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Use your guard to protect the straight path to your body's centre. Own it, protect it. That is where you live: don't stray too far from home.

By occupying a position along the shortest path between you and your opponent, you force him to take a longer path to reach you. Because distance translates into time, the longer it takes for him to reach you, the longer you have to identify the movement and allow your defensive reflexes to work for you.

Watch your Opponent's Elbow

Quite simply, if a person's arm moves, so does his elbow. Therefore, your opponent's striking arm cannot reach you without its elbow coming with it. The elbow is father away than the fist and is easier to read because watching it does not strain the eye like watching the closer fist does.

In addition, because it is farther away, the elbow moves more slowly than the fist and is easier to read. In a linear attack, the elbow moves approximately two and one half times more slowly than the fist. In a circular attack, the elbow moves approximately four times more slowly.

Again, distance translates into time: The longer you can follow the path of the strike - by detecting it sooner - the longer you have to let your reflexes work for you.

The usefulness of this principle is enhanced when you keep in mind that the knee is to the leg as the elbow is to the arm.

Fight on the Blind Side

In traditional Wing Chun, the outside of the opponent's lead arm is called his "blind side". This is where you want to position yourself because it allows you to stay the maximum distance away from his opposite arm. That means you have to deal with only one arm at a time.

Again, distance equals time. If you achieve the blind-side position and your opponent tries to reach you with his rear hand, it takes longer; that gives you more time to react. Also, your opponent may cross his arms as he tries to reach with his opposite hand, and that will leave him susceptible to being trapped.

The objective is to ensure that you have free use of both your arms while you limit your opponent to the use of one. Avoid positioning yourself directly in front of him because you will be threatened by both arms and both legs.

Train to See Everything

The simplest way to see "everything" is to look at one thing. This may sound like a Zen riddle, but it's not. If you try to watch literally everything, chances are you will end up seeing nothing.

So where should you look? As stated before, you should start with your opponent's lead elbow because it is part of his nearest weapon. By focusing on the nearest weapon, you will be able to detect the most immediate threat. Anything other than the most immediate threat will take longer to reach you, thus giving you more time to react.

If your eyes lock onto your opponent's lead elbow, you should use your peripheral vision to keep aware of three other points: his opposite elbow and both his knees. If you detect one of those body parts moving toward you, your eyes should immediately jump to that part.

If you make contact with one of your opponent's arms through a blocking or trapping technique, your eyes should jump to the next nearest threat. Because you can feel his threatening limb, you no longer need to look at it. Your eyes are free to look elsewhere.

Put your Opponent on the Defensive

An old saying holds that sometimes the best defense is a good offense. For the most part that is true: You can't win by being strictly defensive. One of the best ways to stop an opponent from attacking is to attack him first and put him on the defensive. That will force him to deal with you, rather than continue trying to hurt you. He must now defend himself - or suffer the consequences.

Wing Chun practitioners strive to block and strike at the same time. That allows them to immediately put the pressure back on their opponent.

Attack your Opponent's Balance

As stated above, balance is everything. Therefore, you must always maintain your balance and use it to attack your opponent's balance. Often that means getting him to lean too far into a technique, over-commit to a movement or over-extend his body. Without proper balance, he will not be able to move, block or strike effectively.

In Wing Chun, that is achieved primarily through controlling the opponent's elbow. If you control his elbow, you can control his balance.

Learn to Recognize Openings

It is one thing to say, "Put your opponent on the defensive." It is quite another to know where to hit him, with what weapon and when. Whatever your system, you must know - really know - what your tools are, what range or distance they function in, and what part of the body each is designed to hit.

Furthermore, your eyes must be trained to recognize the opening. If you don't have "good eyes" and don't know how to detect an opening, the greatest techniques in the world are not going to help.

Therefore, you must train yourself to be able to detect an opening in any situation and to have the reflexes to take advantage of that opening while it exists.

Have "Heart" but Control your Emotions

Cardio-vascular endurance is crucial to becoming a complete martial artist; however, that is not what is meant by "heart". In this case, it means fighting spirit, or the will to win.

If you don't believe you can win, you probably can't. If your opponent is more convinced of victory than you are, he will probably come out on top. Total confidence, combined with good process and a scientifically sound system, certainly increases the probability of success. But if you do not have heart, even superior skills will never see the light of day; they will be squandered by a more confident opponent.

A popular old saying holds that knowledge is power. For martial artists, that is certainly true. You are most afraid of what you don't know. Therefore, the key to eliminating fear is getting to know what you're afraid of. You must strive to become comfortable in uncomfortable situations. You can't allow fear, anger or excitement to interfere with your ability to effectively deal with an opponent.

A wise man once said, "Know thyself." Only through self-examination can you truly accomplish that. By understanding yourself, you can begin to understand others - including your opponent. And perhaps you will be able to dispose of the fears along the way. That will allow you to focus only on the process of engagement, not the fear of the results.

In conclusion, if you view each combat situation from the perspective of the aforementioned 10 principles - and work to integrate them into your training and sparring - in time you will see a tremendous difference in the application of your techniques. It is guaranteed to work no matter which martial art you practise.
About the author: Eric Oram is a Los Angeles-based actor, musician and free-lance writer who has taught Traditional Wing Chun for 13 years.

http://www.cheungswingchun.com/g/1478/t ... iples.html

... although he didn't write the article. (RY)

THANK YOU

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WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS,
YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.


What is TRUTH ? . . . .THAT THE ONENESS IS ALL !!!
What is JOY ? . . . . . .ALL THAT THE ONENESS IS !!!
What is LOVE ? . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT IS ALL !!!
What is LIFE ? . . . . . ALL THAT IS THE ONENESS !!!
WHO AM I ? . . . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT ALL IS !!!


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Tara
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by Tara » May 27th, 2010, 7:47 pm

Hi IAAIA, I've come across various differences in the lineages, particularly between that of the two brothers, Ip Chun and Ip Ching (and there's even differences between what they teach), and that of Wong Shun Leung. One reason is that the brothers really only learnt properly from their father later on in his Hong Kong teaching days (as the brothers were back in Fushan with their mother) whilst Wong Shun Leung was one of his early Hong Kong students. So, the forms of the brothers has less moves in them (due to Ip Man wishing to simplify the system, so to fit one of the central ideas of WC - efficency. Plus wanting to only have 108 moves in the forms. Bloody asians are crazy for that number :wink7) compared to WSL.
WSL is legendary for his fighting skills, developing them out of class and on the rooftops of Hong Kong against other martial arts practitioners. Hence, his approach is very much from a practical point of view, stressing the basics, particularly the stance and punch, and tactics.

My brother-in-law gets out to Hong Kong once or twice a year to train, and on his last trip Samuel Kwok took him and some of the other sifus/students to other clubs from different lineages and/or with different interpretations. This was great for me (and obviously him!) when I was last down in Wales as we got to play with the different techniques/approaches/methods the Cantonese lot were kind enough to show him. TBH, I don't think there is really a 'wrong way' of doing WC, each approach having value as long as the basic concepts are stuck to. Plus the emphasis changes as you progress in the system, e.g. to start with you're told to really keep the elbows in, but later on when learning the butterfly knives, you learn to open up the guard. I'd love to get out there at some point, once I feel my 'hard work' (Kung Fu) is good enough that I'll gain the most out of the experience, as well as travel about and visit some of the other branches of the family tree that branched off before the time of Ip Man, for example the Vietnamese lineage.

Blimey, I've been waffling :embss



Oneofmany
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by Oneofmany » May 28th, 2010, 12:16 am

Excellent thread guys (TU)


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Tara
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by Tara » May 28th, 2010, 1:49 am

Before continuing, I feel a need to say I’m only a beginner and still learning (Wing Chun), only being able to talk with any real certainty about what I know/experience, and even that may well be wrong! I’m certainly not an expert or a ‘master’ - I simply love to discuss (and waffle about!) one of my pet obsessions. So, please don’t take my word for it, find a class (if you’re interested), experiment, and have fun :oD

DCR

“I understand that Wing Chun's legends were said to have fought for freedom from gangsters.”

I’ve mainly heard two stories about the development of it. One is the love story –

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yim_Wing-chun

Having read that description, these might be a better/fuller version of the fairy tale –

[url]http://www.meridiankungfu.com/wing-chun-kung-fu.asp
http://www.naturalwingchun.com/history_wing_chun.htm[/url]

And here’s an article about the other –

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/meng/truthrevealed.php

“Systema teaches 'be a good person', don't become an animal, and says that power in systema comes from a place of good, and people will lose their power if they bully.”

Glad to hear it! Oh,thinking about you saying "...from a place of good" I just thought - in Wing Chun there's a saying to "always punch/attack from the heart." I like to take that as the simple physical advice of how to punch along the centre line, but also to do so with 'heart' and therefore, for the right reasons.

“Pesonaly I decided not to concentrate on training in Wing Chun, partly because I found that the basic training involed so much conditioning repeated movement to overcome pavlovian conditioning away from pain. It seemed a bit robotic, and 'force against force'.”

That’s the great thing with there being so many forms of martial art, there’s something for everyone! You seemed pretty happy with the Systema when I last saw you, are you still doing it?
I’d certainly agree with the conditioning away from pain part, in the sense that it’s a natural human reaction to raise the arm (with the elbow roughly pointing upwards) to cover the face, and this being trained out into the bong sau (‘wing arm’). Another reason (in my opinion) for the repetition is to turn the techniques into habitual reactions. So as Mr Lee once said “the fist hits all by itself.” This increases speed by reducing reaction/thinking time. Although my last instructor (of the WSL lineage) wouldn’t let us repeat a set technique too many times (apart from the forms) with the idea of keeping us from getting stuck in techniques and limited by them. Hmmm, not sure about the ‘force against force’ thing, as a general rule no I'd say no, but depends on the situation I guess.

IAAIA

“... although an acquittal in court doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't true either.”

True, hence saying “seemed.” I think ‘Christopher’ makes some good points on that link. Things such as the code of conduct I posted earlier aren’t something I can say I’ve been perfect at keeping to, but I continue to aspire to being a better person to my fellow naked apes, and to cut the bullshit. This is why seeing some testosterone fuelled interpretations saddens me. The above fairytale of the origins of the system, like a lot of fairytales, serves as a sweeping generalisation (and occultation) of the possible reality, and yet also conveys some ‘heart-truths’, lessons and insights that some may miss. Stories are there to teach us.

Pigeon toe – as far as I’m aware, most of the Ip Man lineages teach that the feet are angled inwards when doing ‘Yee’ Gee Kim Yeung Ma. It’s only a basic training stance and has no fighting application. Its purpose is to provide a stable base to practice the techniques, and to strengthen the legs to provide a stable base when fighting, and condition them in preparation for learning the kicks (traditionally a student would spend a good 40 minutes + in the stance at a time, until the sifu felt they were ready to learn more . Plus, you can (initially looking stupid) look cool on buses and trains when everyone else goes flying when there’s a sudden stop ;o)

By neutral stance (Hoi Ma?), do you mean standing straight with feet together?

I may have to invest in the books (or pop up to Manchester and check him out)! What benefits have you got from following the books?

What is “Tai Jung Tai Sut”?
Yup, the six principles and ten principles are our bread and butter! I can appreciate his relief in learning WC after Karate for that same reason. I never got an answer to the same question. I’d love to chat with an Okinawan master to get a better idea.

Here’s some links
http://www.vingtsun.org.hk/
http://www.wcarchive.com/html/wing-chun-articles.htm
http://www.wingchunonline.com/Wingchun/ ... le_A8.html
http://www.ukwingchun.com/articles.htm
http://www.wingchun.co.uk/
http://www.kwokwingchun.co.uk/
http://www.ipchun.org/

With shits and grins,
Tara xXx :biggn



Tara
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by Tara » May 28th, 2010, 6:24 am

Thank you guys and girls, you've given me many hours of thought about our beautiful lovely (Wing Chun)! :hug

The following had me in stitches, initialy due to the starting Shaw Brothers 70's (and previous) style intro' and continuing 70's/porno music (so playing to the Bruce Lee market, even in '82. Hmmm, the Bruce Lee dollar, now that's a good marketing dollar), but after I got over that, a surprisingly good intro' for someone who's only just started the style, or like me, someone with a little similarity with it, or another martial art. The only video of Wong Shun Leung (urm, I don't want to seem biased to this approach, it is simply the last I've trained in and so has my focus). I love and hope to be a lover of all the approaches to this system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIQGflqxMY (do watch the rest if you're interested)

Baring the silly noises, I think Mr Lee had some good ideas about finding and creating ones own approach (hats off to DCR for taking such an approach...saying about your tasting of various favours). Hell, that's the start of the MMA and UFC.

May all beings have happiness and the cause of happiness! :yey2



Ant
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by Ant » May 28th, 2010, 3:48 pm

I AM ALL I AM wrote:
1. Avoid Fighting force with force.

Now that is wisdom. (TU)



deathcultreject
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by deathcultreject » May 28th, 2010, 4:14 pm

Ant wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
1. Avoid Fighting force with force.

Now that is wisdom. (TU)


Agreed.

I try to meet suffering with compassion, and false indignation with glibness.



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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by I AM ALL I AM » May 28th, 2010, 4:42 pm

Tara wrote:... By neutral stance (Hoi Ma?), do you mean standing straight with feet together?

I may have to invest in the books (or pop up to Manchester and check him out)! What benefits have you got from following the books?

What is “Tai Jung Tai Sut”? ...


I LOVE YOU


G'day Tara. :wave (TH)

Both feet shoulder width apart with each foot pointing forward, as if you ere standing on railways tracks. (W)

To name only a few benefits; greater flexibility; control of moving chi throughout the physicality; improved health.

Basically, Tai Jung Tai Sut is watching knees and elbows.

Thank you for providing those link, I appreciate your addition to the thread.


THANK YOU

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WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS,
YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.


What is TRUTH ? . . . .THAT THE ONENESS IS ALL !!!
What is JOY ? . . . . . .ALL THAT THE ONENESS IS !!!
What is LOVE ? . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT IS ALL !!!
What is LIFE ? . . . . . ALL THAT IS THE ONENESS !!!
WHO AM I ? . . . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT ALL IS !!!


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I AM ALL I AM
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Re: Wing Chun Kung Fu

Unread post by I AM ALL I AM » May 30th, 2010, 6:14 pm

I LOVE YOU

Wing Chun Kicking by Gary Lam

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Wing Chun kicking? Many have heard of its devastating power, but few know its secrets.

Now, in this amazing DVD Sifu Gary lam explains and demonstrates proper Wing Chun kicking techniques, step by step. When properly executed, these kicks can be the most deadly fight-stopping actions you’ve ever seen !

Now you, too, can know what was reserved in the past for the select few.

Cast: Gary Lam, Sifu Lam is one of the worlds leading experts in Wing Chun Kung Fu and like his teacher honed his skills in tournament fighting and personal self-defense experiences.

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http://rapidshare.com/files/126817796/_Kung_Fu__Wing_Chun__Wing_Chun_Kicking__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/126824767/_Kung_Fu__Wing_Chun__Wing_Chun_Kicking__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/126827074/_Kung_Fu__Wing_Chun__Wing_Chun_Kicking__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.003


Complete System of Wooden Dummy by Gary Lam

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Learn to master the most COMPLETE wooden dummy technique from Sifu Gary Lam.

The traditional form has 108 movements, but this has been expanded to 138 by Sifu Lam's teacher, Wong Shun Leung, with Grand Master Yip Man's approval based on his years of challenge matches (Beimo).

Sifu Gary Lam not only teaches all of the fundamental technique in this DVD, but also breaks down each section to provide detail explanation of each move and its application.

A must-own presentation for all students of Wing Chun, no matter what your level of accomplishment.

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http://rapidshare.com/files/129418123/Complete_System_of_Wooden_Dummy__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/129425175/Complete_System_of_Wooden_Dummy__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/129589602/Complete_System_of_Wooden_Dummy__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.003
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http://rapidshare.com/files/129600953/Complete_System_of_Wooden_Dummy__Gary_Lam__2004__-_Rmvb.rmvb.005


Wing Tsun Anti Grappling by Victor Gutierrez

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Victor Gutiérrez focuses on new options when facing situations on the floor: like looking for opening where to punch, neutralizing the opponent, and how to rapidly resolve situations. It is a video that will provoke controversy, in which, once again, we definitely have proof of its didactic category done by one of the most outstanding international masters at the moment.

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http://rapidshare.com/files/127876859/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/127889524/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/127902976/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.003
http://rapidshare.com/files/127980956/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.004
http://rapidshare.com/files/127991434/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.005
http://rapidshare.com/files/128071349/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.006
http://rapidshare.com/files/128073194/Anti_grappling_-Victor_Gutierrez_-_WING_TSUN.avi.007


THANK YOU

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WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS,
YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.


What is TRUTH ? . . . .THAT THE ONENESS IS ALL !!!
What is JOY ? . . . . . .ALL THAT THE ONENESS IS !!!
What is LOVE ? . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT IS ALL !!!
What is LIFE ? . . . . . ALL THAT IS THE ONENESS !!!
WHO AM I ? . . . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT ALL IS !!!


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